“There can be no concessions after all that Russia has done.” Vice-speaker of the Verkhovna Rada – about the requirements at the negotiations of the aggressor country
The format of compromises between Ukraine and Russia can be submitted to an all-Ukrainian referendum. This was stated by President of Ukraine Volodymyr Zelensky in a direct interview with reporters. At the same time, Zelensky noted that a referendum on the neutral status of Ukraine can be applied only after the withdrawal of Russian troops. Also, without the withdrawal of troops, a third party will not sign an agreement on security guarantees for Ukraine.
We talked about a possible referendum with Oleksandr Korniyenko, Deputy Head of the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine.
– What compromises can Ukrainians make?
– Impossible talk even about compromises with the territorial area of Ukraine. This is the unshakable part. And, of course, we do not really understand any ultimatums, including those that are completely incomprehensible, I would even say that in Ukraine they are perceived very much as some anecdotal statements related to denazification and something else. There’s not even anything to talk about. We understand that any manifestations and any manifestations are important, because, of course, it is necessary to move by all means in order for Ukraine to win and for us to have peace.
– Zelensky, the document must be ratified by the parliaments of the guarantor countries. You can decide who can marry the six guarantor countries, and in general the procedure itself: they must be ratified in parliament, as I understand it. Will it really give a guarantee of security that Russia will not attack, that the conditions are met?
– The guarantor countries are perceived differently, they yearn to be present among the people of Ukraine, of course, the UK in the first place, Disaster reports, perhaps our partner countries in the so-called Normandy process, which we have been walking along this path for eight years already , perhaps, Turkey as one of the fairly serious leaders in Europe. And for us, this is always connected with the Black Sea basin, where Turkey is one of the selected geopolitical players. And ratification procedures are applied, of course, all forms of concluding treaties are always ratified in pairs, this is the normal procedure of international practice. And the Verkhovna Rada is not unusual, we ratify international treaties a lot. If it is necessary for certain actions of the Verkhovna Rada, we, of course, will take an active part in these processes. Now our activity is aimed at ensuring that a faster and more accurate change in the law requires those difficult conditions in which, unfortunately, our country finds itself now.
Zelensky is talking about a referendum. And how to carry it out in a war?
– Not in a war. And we have a ban on this in the legislation. I would say that when our president spoke about the referendum, he says that some decisions, whatever they may be, are related to changing certain geopolitical things for Ukraine, participation in certain military-political blocs, then, of course, this must be confirmed by the Ukrainian people in order for it to be completely the will of not only politicians, not only the ulceration of the elite, but also citizens. During the war, neither referendums nor elections can be held, this is written directly in the Constitution, in Ukrainian legislation. But we understand that the referendum tool is used quite quickly in world time, and not much time is needed to reproduce it.
Of course, there are many organizational issues that are currently on the border between Ukrainians and within the country. But all this is decided organizationally. A direct infrastructure is being created, I don’t think this is the main problem. Here the main problem of the president is again that it is impossible to find any transparent elections, referendums, any democratic processes when foreign troops are in your country. The most important is the first stage, which should not be in Ukraine, and then we can deal with the settlement.
– Check if you are a representative of Ukraine’s parliament, I can’t help but ask you, the population of Ukraine, how will the citizens react to the holding of a referendum, to some concessions to Russia, if they, of course, will be?
– This is an ongoing issue now. And we also see different opinions on this matter. Of course, there can be no concessions, no ultimatums after everything that Russia has done. And now those shots that we see of the destroyed buildings. And there are many personnel and people who are near these buildings, and they are dead, these are our Ukrainians who come from Russian shells, bullets, explosions, from anything. Therefore, of course, after everything that the Russian Federation has already done this month on the territory of Ukraine, it is impossible to talk about any ultimatums, concessions, and so on.
We understand that the rest of the component should still be, and we ourselves should fight for it, that helps us more than anything else in the world. And, perhaps, there are no major world leaders left, Zelensky would not have had a conversation from the meeting, ten times during this time. Of course, all this is only aimed at shutting down the Russian Federation, still calming it down and so that it spreads such actions against Ukraine, and sits down at the negotiating table with a stop and withdrawal of troops.
But you also need to understand that there are topics that do not develop from the ultimatums of the Russian Federation, and, perhaps, the topic of security guarantees is the only government for them, which, according to the constitution, manipulates the Russian Federation.
We also have a discussion about this in society, when we received a call and a promise that we are making a decision to join NATO. And during this time we have integrated quite closely, in fact, we have strongly [подтянулись к стандартам] NATO, first of all, in terms of the reform of the army and other bodies, is part of the system, the security services – we have made a lot of progress in this. And for us this story is clear: we never refused. Moreover, in the past the convocation of parliament and the constitution were amended.
However, when we now find ourselves in such an interesting situation, we see that NATO assistance is not always what the Ukrainian people expect. So here, of course, people have questions. Again, this is a discussion that keeps records, it is already engaged in observations of the months from the moments of the beginning and with the moments when we, with all the people, with all the elites, with all possible voices, in chorus and absent-mindedly, asked to close the sky, asked and continue to ask for funds to protect the closure of the sky, if NATO does not want to do it itself and does not want to get involved in some more difficult situations with the Russian Federation. Therefore, this discussion of Ukraine will continue, and we will obviously find an internal political answer sooner or later.
– I understand that it’s impossible to get inside Vladimir Putin’s head, and probably I don’t want to, but nevertheless I would like to ask you, do you generally believe that Russia will withdraw its troops before the referendum takes place? That is, for example, Ukraine says to Russia: “We guarantee that the referendum will be held, and Russia must withdraw its troops.” Do you think she will go for it? Will Vladimir Putin personally go for it?
– You know, I think that it is not necessary to put the question like that and it is not necessary to discuss in a special section that everything must be done to ensure that we get out of this terrible war with Ukrainian interest on Ukrainian terms. Obviously, this will probably be the beginning and not tomorrow, because we see that, unfortunately, the aggressor is very serious, continues to be serious, we see this every day. The goals change, the action of the action changes, but the main goal does not change – this is the destruction of Ukraine, Ukrainian, that everything can be, we feel it, we understand it. And one would not need to get into the head of anyone in order to simply understand that in the 21st century one should not explore such things in the center of Europe.