“The moment is not far off when Russia will provoke a clash with NATO.” Ukrainian diplomat on how Russian aggression can act
The UN reported that since the beginning of the war in Ukraine, 925 people worldwide have died, including 75 children. 1496 people were injured, including 99 children. This is preliminary data, the number of dead and injured could be much higher.
About how the situation can be captured further, and whether it is possible to agree with Russia, we talked with the former and full ambassador of Ukraine to the United States Valeriy Chaly.
– Probably, I understand that you are among the representatives of those people who believe that it is useless and simply impossible to negotiate with Vladimir Putin.
– Actually, I am a citizen of Ukraine, this is the first thing. Secondly, the President of Ukraine stated that we absolutely share everything. That is, no one is going to give up, capitulate. As for the discussion, I participated in the negotiations where the delegation covered Vladimir Putin, I know his point of view very well.
– Can you find out, if possible, how it opens from the inside?
– No, I will not say what I said personally, even during the war with Russia. Because there is a need for justice in diplomacy. I personally heard a number of answers from him, I [вопросы] asked him personally, for me everything is clear. And I can comment on the environment as follows: the goal of Russia and his Vladimir Putin, and the one adjacent to it, is clear. They have the right to exist in Ukraine in the form in which it is now – sovereign, independent.
In 2015, in Minsk, where I took part, I know many things from previous reactions, previous reactions: You remember, the key issue there was that the Ukrainian army was surrounded, it must surrender. The same thing, I’m just giving you a comparison with what is happening now. This has already become known, so I will talk about it about the discovery. Vladimir Putin wanted to bargain as much as possible for two weeks, three days, a day in order to destroy the Ukrainian military and, as a result, the consequences that were there. And he pulled this time with the same ultimatum. They issued an ultimatum that your eight thousand must march on the white flag, lay down their arms, and leave. To which our people simply said: “You know how unacceptable your proposal is.” And indeed, they went to other positions, entrenched themselves in new positions. That is, the situation is understandable, but now a new situation has arisen. That is, there is already a confrontation for mutual destruction, and this already covers this phase. Moreover, I think the moment is not far off when Russia provokes a clash with NATO countries. Therefore, the goals are clear. The goal is obvious: by all means, by sending students, now you have killed, mobilization, they have already raised the age to old people, unfortunately, by the standards of Russia, throw everything, throw it, it is not clear why, because our army fights professionally, you see it. And what an outburst, you have frames, it’s only to hit the malls.
– Valery, can I ask a question: why would Russia provoke a conflict involving NATO countries?
– To show that NATO is not capable of responding, that NATO is weak. And this exists in Russian propaganda not only now, it has always been. In addition to the fact that you said that I worked as an ambassador to the United States, I was also the secretary of the Ukrainian-Russian group under the president. Therefore, I know perfectly well these moods, how they have changed every year. I traveled to Russia for a long time and talked. And I see goals, that is, it was not possible to somehow change the situation, so let’s destroy and bring in some other people. Imagine how convincing the idea of this was not modern fascism. How can you deliver more than 40 million people? That is, it was an illusion and a mistake that in Ukraine people simply meet “liberators” with flowers.
Yes, I can find that some people in Moscow have in their heads such a thing that we are thus pushing back somewhere the move to a possible NATO attack. But look, I have two questions: first, NATO is already close to the borders on the other side. And my question is very simple: if Putin and the command of the confrontation with NATO are outraged by some attacks, why are they not at war with NATO? Why are they at war with Ukraine?
– If all this is in some sense explained by the reluctance of the close presence of NATO, why provoke now? Do you think that NATO will simply refuse to take any part for a very long time, even if this threat is already on the territory of the alliance?
– Why will he provoke Russia? Because they have a great desire to use this moment to show the weakness of the Western world.
– Inside Russia.
– Take away from Russia, let’s say.
– Such a nuclear electorate.
– Not only do they get the electorate, they get pleasure from this. This is a deep thought, I can, including here, tell Vladimir Putin about the weakness of the oddities of the device, that all this is rotten, that the Soviet Union was just by chance due to the weakness of the technical elites, they then, as it were, yielded, and now we will take revenge and possibly weakness NATO, US weakness. You can remember my words, it’s just a matter of a week. It is an internally extremely painful topic that they will want to show this weakness. And then it all depends on what the story will be. I don’t know what will happen unexpectedly, by the way I’ll tell you. I do not know. Due to the fact that NATO countries are currently lagging behind, she moved from shock to some kind of reflection.
But there is also a logic to it. There are reasons why she is late.
– I think that it is considered a big mistake that direct influence cannot be allowed – this is just how it is designed. And it is very wrong to state what we did not order. Here I hear some statements: “We will not go for it.” US President Joseph Biden said: “If even one American is killed by Russians, we will act accordingly.” So what? And these infections, which no matter how we bought, cause Putin. I express my opinion, I just see it with previous actions. That is, weakness provokes limitation of action. Until only the force becomes greater than the use of Russia, this will all expand and expand, including beyond the borders of Ukraine, which is already happening.