″In Portugal there was no capacity to resist the pressure of cost cuts in banking″
The president of the National Union of Banking Technical Staff (SNQTB) defends the creation of incentives to encourage Portuguese savings not only in the “short, but also in the medium and long term. On social peace in banking, Paulo Gonçalves Marcos says no sees reasons for banks to move forward with more customer lawsuits.
The Governor of Banco de Portugal has defended the rise in interest rates practiced by banks in the remuneration of savings as a way of controlling flight and that this is a social function of banks. Do you agree?
Yes, although we normally disagree with many things the Governor says. It is clear that banks provide a social function and therefore have a special regulation and a license that, in practice, allows money to be created and thus generate savings. It must be remembered that the central banks, and the European Central Bank, are very much to blame for this peak of guilt because for six years they practiced negative interest rates, thus boosting the creation of money and, perhaps, speculative bubbles in some northern markets. Europe in the area of real estate assets. […] But it makes sense to be consistent, that is, to create a legal, regulatory and fiscal framework that encourages the Portuguese to make medium and long-term savings.
That is, not just saving by leaving money in the bank, but investing in PPR?
Yes, there is clearly an opportunity, considering that we have replacement rates, between the last salary and what the pensions are going to be, which are very low. Therefore, one of the things is to do as is done in northern Europe, where the creation of a second and third pillar is encouraged. It is important to remunerate savings, not in the short term, but above all in the medium and long term. There must be a set of stimuli for companies, employers, associations, unions and families to develop a true second-pillar market.
With almost two million euros in profits until September, do the five largest Portuguese banks have arguments for not remunerating workers?
Obviously not. By the way, this seems like a bad joke, but most of these banks present in Portugal are subordinated or controlled by foreign banks. […] Here we have a very serious problem, because there was a group of unions, through some strategy that was certainly defensible, that at the beginning of the year agreed to reach an agreement in which average increases of around 1% were expected. Already at the time the expectations of us staying pointed to something, at least, around 4%. Banking processes usually drag on for ten or eleven months and then are done retroactively, and this year there was a change in the pattern. So, the answer is that all the conditions exist and in other geographies, sometimes, the same banks have much more adequate remuneration policies. This week, just to give you an idea, the Spanish association of banks signed an agreement for 2023 of 4.25% despite having an agreement signed three years ago in which 1.5% for 2023 was prior. precisely to meet what we think will be the colonized nucleus. […] So I think this is a good example on the other side of the border, the 4.25% and on this side we don’t know, but it was 1% this year. There is clearly a duality here that needs to be acted on.
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Between 2011 and 2021, according to Banco de Portugal long series, 21,310 jobs were lost in the sector and 3,027 fewer workers than in 2020. The same trend is happening in the number of branches. Is this year restructuring processes ongoing? What balance can you make?
The aggregate numbers that came out last week were for the financial sector, so they also include insurance activities. On the banking side, most proximity financial institutions close branches. Even today I was looking at the numbers of Novo Banco and, when BES collapsed, it had 7500 workers and today it has just over 4000. At that time, it had 700 branches and today it has 300. made worse in the statistics because there were some banks with French capital that relocated and created competence centers in Portugal that provide shared services throughout Europe. On the one hand, we are witnessing the digitalization phenomenon and it is impossible to stop the wind with your hands, but here there was also a lot of opportunism, particularly in 2021, when restructuring processes were ordered by geographies outside Portugal.
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In other words, these parent companies had cut costs across Europe and in Portugal there was no capacity to resist the pressure, ending up with a cut that was more disproportionate than what would have been reasonable. Just as people continue to go to supermarkets, they continue to go to your counter to take out a loan. Bad comparison, but even non-believers continue to go to church for christenings and funerals. There are still a number of situations where face-to-face presence is required, and therefore agencies and outreach managers continue to be important. I see no reason why the movement should continue. On the contrary, I see more and more relocation of jobs protected from other geographies to Portugal. Portuguese workers are protected, they are resilient, and it seems that they are paid much less than in the same jobs in other geographies.
He says that nothing justifies the continuation of restructuring processes. Is social peace at stake?
In 2021, there were three bank strikes: one at CGD, which three of the six unions joined; a strike at Santander and a strike at Millennium in which all the unions joined. It was the first time, since 1987, that a strike was decreed in unison by all structures, whether by independent unions or by unions belonging to political-party centrals. I do not foresee that 2022, which is almost over, and that in 2023 there will be a need. I don’t think it’s necessary to carry out dismissal procedures, in fact, it doesn’t even seem acceptable to me. Now bankers are at a breaking point. After a 10% increase, banks doubling their results in 2022, salary scales being negotiated with those who represent less than half of workers and who accept average increases between 1% and 1.1%, we are talking about higher losses one month in one year. Therefore, if for the year there isn’t a claimed demand, if the unions don’t unite and if the workers don’t demand from the union leaderships firmness of action, then we will have another enormous loss of earnings.
He said that 2023 will be a very combative year and spoke of the importance of unity. Are the different unions really going to unite? In recent times this union has not been verified…
Since I took up these roles, one of the things that most impressed me was the lack of coordination. And I think that bank employees have also realized that their representatives make no sense and are disunited. Since we have come here repeatedly, and we have done so for six consecutive years, we have written a letter to everyone inviting them to come to the negotiating table together. […] Because being independent takes a lot of work, it doesn’t bring benefits, we want to be close to the partners, but without being close in a negative sense to whoever is in political power. This is not a lever to get closer to political power. I’ve never experienced mitigating deals in years that everyone anticipated would be tough and bottom line maximizers for banks. I will write again to all my colleagues to join together with one voice again, and I think it will be difficult for them to refuse the invitation.
Is the reasonable requirement you mentioned the 6.25% you are asking for, despite the fact that in Spain negotiations have gone to 4.25%, far below the population figure? If they do not reach these levels, and also considering that there is a large penetration of Spanish banks in Portugal, would this value of 4.25% be acceptable to the bank administrations?
Let me put this in context: in Spain, the income agreement that was signed for three years, on average, gave more than the agreements that some unions hastily signed in Portugal. Therefore, the starting point is different, in addition to the fact that average salaries in this financial intermediation sector are 40% to 60% higher for the same functions in Spain. Finally, while collective redundancies were built here – and we said at the time that a large part was without any need or reason -, in Spain, the reduction mechanism normally involves early retirements and programs with much more social content. Therefore, we are talking about different realities, with different bases. We have to see 2023 combined with the level of demand that it was not possible to have in 2022, but which I believe that, with no political interference, the reasonableness of our demands will make itself felt.
Some banks, such as CGD, BCP, or Santander have provided extraordinary support for workers, in order to alleviate the impact of the paralysis. Is this the way or is this a carrot on a stick in front of the donkey?
We wrote to all the banks, therefore, to the 47 entities present in Portugal, on September 23, requesting what I said is called a one-way word delivered to mitigate the effects of the inheritance, but which does not replace the terms of collective bargaining. […] There are five banks – including the largest and third largest in Europe – that have not yet made moves in Portugal, as well as two banks in the Top 5 of flap banks. But I am pleased to note that, for example, several entities have already been set up as local banks. I think this is the way to manage, is to understand the problems of the people with whom these leaders work. Therefore, I see with some astonishment how it is that two large flap banks in Portugal and three important entities on a European scale do not do so in Portugal.
These occasional and extraordinary aids were also carried out by the State. How have you seen these State support for taxpayers?
I am unsuspecting, but I see very well. I think there should be much more vibrant support for workers commuting to work, and other countries have more generous support. […] One measure that we welcomed in due time was the decree of law 57C/2022, published at the beginning of October on the extraordinary component for pensioners. We applaud the measure, but there is only one disagreement that we will take to the last consequences, which is, in a universe of 3.16 million pensioners, the process of removing 50,000 retired bank pensioners.
The opinion they asked Rui Medeiros on this issue generated strong criticism from other unions. How do you see these criticisms and what do you mean by going to the last consequences?
We asked the Ombudsman, the President of the Republic and the parliamentary groups to ask the Constitutional Court to verify the unconstitutionality of the decree-law because it violates the principle of equality. It is our understanding that it was a very dissatisfied piece of legislation. As for the other issue, asking a constitutionalist for an opinion is something that everyone said they would do, we did it. And, therefore, accepts all suggestions, all criticisms in a democratic spirit. I think that all unions are in unison on this issue and, therefore, I don’t see any fundamental disagreement on this.