“Any forced displacement is against international law”
While many testimonies report forced displacements of Ukrainian refugees to Russia, the human rights officer at the Ukrainian parliament suspected the ICRC of being ” partner in crime ” of ” deportations “. Accusations strongly denied by the public relations officer of the ICRC, Frédéric Joli.
For several weeks, a controversy swells in Ukraine concerning the “forced” displacement of Ukrainian refugees in Russia. They would be more than 550,000 according to the UN, including 121,000 children. A situation once again denounced on Wednesday April 20 by Lioudmila Denissova, in charge of human rights at the Ukrainian Parliament, who criticizes the International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC) for not cooperating with her country on the fate of these refugees, suspect even the ICRC to be partner in crime ” of ” deportations “. Remarks categorically rejected by the ICRC, as confirmed by Frédéric Joli, public relations officer at the International Committee of the Red Cross.
RFI: What is your response to Lioudmila Denissova who accuses the ICRC of complicity in the deportation of Ukrainian refugees to Russia?
Frederic Joli: The role of the International Committee of the Red Cross, whose job it is to be a neutral intermediary in armed conflict, is above all to ensure that all those who are evacuated are evacuated in accordance with international law. humanitarian aid, which of course contradicts or prevents any forced displacement. The ICRC is the Red Cross in times of war: we work in all situations of armed conflict on the planet and we ensure that this law is applied.
Obviously, any population displacement that is not voluntary on the part of the people is contrary to international humanitarian law. So the ICRC, which is both the guardian of this right, but also the one who wrote this right today signed by all the States of the planet, you can imagine that it obviously ensures that this right is respected and that everything he puts into practice conforms to these provisions. People who move, people who leave conflict zones, the police according to their own will and not by force.
But was the ICRC aware of these forced displacements, of these forced displacements?
The ICRC does not have a complete view of the situation. The ICRC works in the most complex areas today in terms of active stability, that is to say the Donbass, the south of the country, with varying fortunes because the hostilities mean that in terms of security or Acceptance of humanitarian aid on the spot by the belligerents the situation remains extremely difficult. Yes, people left for Russia because they chose to. I remind you all the same that everything that is happening today in Ukraine is initially linked since 2014 to the conflict in the Donbass which opposes two parties and that part of the population has chosen to go to the side of Russia.
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But the majority of the evacuations of the population, either by their own means, or by the agreement of the parties to organize evacuations or, sometimes also, of the work of the ICRC which is present in the area, are mainly carried out in the direction of Ukraine. . So the situation is extremely complicated. It has now been six weeks that in terms of hostility, well there is not much room for humanitarian access, little room for the victims of this conflict who are essentially civilians, and that the work of the ICRC it is to ensure that the parties to the conflict respect the Geneva Conventions and international humanitarian law.
At the same time, the ICRC is trying to provide assistance to people who cannot move. But we are in an armed conflict, a situation that we unfortunately know well, and between war propaganda, the instrumentalization that can be made of humanitarian action, but also of the stakes that civilian populations can represent when ‘ ‘they shouldn’t be, we arrive at situations which are extremely problematic and which not only can jeopardize the humanitarian operations in progress, but also the safety of the humanitarian personnel on the ground.
Do you have any information about the sorting reserved for these refugees by the Russian authorities and are you in contact with these Russian authorities?
The ICRC, therefore a neutral intermediary, is in constant contact with all the parties to the conflict. We have a confidential dialogue because it is also important to maintain a form of trust with all the belligerents, both with the Russian authorities and with the Ukrainian authorities, not only since the beginning of the extension of the conflict, six weeks ago, but also since 2014 since the ICRC has been working in Ukraine since 2014 mainly on the conflict in Donbass. All these contacts, we already have them at the highest level and for eight years and of course we continue to maintain these contacts so that we can bring what we can do in terms of assistance to the populations .
Once again, it’s really politics that will provide solutions and in the meantime, humanitarians are doing what they can. You have in the front line, if I may say so, the International Committee of the Red Cross and its 700 personnel who, for six weeks and even for a long time, have been trying to protect and assist the civilian population. It is its role, it is its mandate and it is our sole agenda to protect in all circumstances the populations who should not have been caught up in the fighting, which has unfortunately been happening for six weeks now, whether in the Donbass or in the south of the country and on the side of Mariupol or even in the north of side of butcha or Irpin.
Concretely, what can the ICRC do in this case?
What needs to be done, I think, is trained in pedagogy. The ICRC is in permanent contact with both the Russian and Ukrainian authorities, it is well known. The ICRC maintains permanent confidential relations because it must be able to have a working relationship of trust.
The best way to understand is, for example, detention. The ICRC visits one million detainees around the world. To enter a prison, one must have the consent of the prison authorities, for example, and to be able to return there, one must be able to give guarantees. This guarantee is called confidentiality. If we publicly denounce what we witness in the prisons, we will no longer be able to go back to it and therefore we will no longer be able to both monitor the detainees and ensure, for example, their treatment.
It’s exactly the same thing in an active hostility zone. When we cross a front line, we have to be able to have the authorization of all the parties to the conflict and therefore the dialogue that we maintain with all the parties takes place under the seal of this confidentiality which is the sesame that allows us to access the victims, to develop our action and also incidentally to guarantee a minimum of security for our personnel directly in the field.
Lioudmila Denissova speaks this Thursday morning of cases of forced deportation to Russia of groups of children and adolescents whose parents were allegedly killed by Russian forces. Do you have any information on these facts reported by the human rights officer at the Ukrainian Parliament?
We have been hearing this type of information for several days and the ICRC categorically denounces this information. This means that either we are not witnesses, or in any case we obviously do not participate in this. To our knowledge, while we maintain this confidential dialogue both with the Russian authorities and with the national authorities, this does not seem justified. But once again, we don’t have the overall view of the whole situation, but we are present and with the strongest possible contact with the different parties.
One thing is certain, it is that this type of situation, this type of allegation, poses real operational problems in order to be able to access the parties with a minimum of confidence directly on the ground, to be able to accomplish the humanitarian mission, to be able to recall the obligations with regard to the civilians of the various parties to the conflict and also to guarantee a minimum of security for all our personnel in the field.