“Portugal listens to Spain. the opposite is not always the case” – Observer
In the last days of last year, the Parliament bases the meaning of mining amendments to the sector law. Secretary of State João Galamba came to draw attention in Parliament with the changes in projects that may occur because of some exploration projects. Can the amendments that Parliament has imposed allow future mining operations to be at stake?
At one point, proposals — I think it was from the Bloco but it was from the PEV, sorry, I don’t know if I’m going back, to contracts already signed — and that was what particularly worried us, and that’s what João Galamba referred to. And this change was not voted on. But what was voted on is absurd. And the absurdity is not that there is no mining in the protected areas — then, in fact, don’t ask me to be a favor of mining in the protected areas, I’m not in favor — it’s just not here [na lei das minas] let her decide. It is in the rules of protected areas that these things have to be decided. For example, the regulation of the Peneda-Gerês national park says that the existence of mines is prohibited. Very good. What we defended was really a formality. It is absurd that a mine law should be here. It has to be here in the management instruments of the different territorial spaces, of the different protected spaces. What I think is in fact a completely Byzantine opinion, is to feel that she is thinking that there is mine law here.
Do you think it will be more difficult to get mining contracts, lean them on the target, which was one of the big targets?
at all. At least in the tender that this Government wants to launch, and that it estimates that the next Government will launch, the sites that were largely in three protected areas had already been excluded. Then, when a strategic environmental assessment site was launched, we ourselves excluded all those from the Natura 2000 Network, which, strictly speaking, in terms of territorial significance, only exists in Serra de Arga. Here, objectively, in the place where LNEG said, there is a space of reduced half, for less reduced half or taken from the Natura 2000 Network.
Will the Savannah project get environmental clearance to get it?
This is a concrete issue on which I do not speak. And it has nothing to do with any law. An environmental impact assessment is being carried out by the APA. I know what the situation is. Potential impacts were identified, Spain was asked to make a decision, and they await the APA or opinion from Spain for later.
What transboundary impacts? What are we talking about specifically?
It is located close to the border and, therefore, it is an absolutely normal project, whenever there is one close to the border, Portugal hears Spain. the opposite is not always the case, but we are always well at our job.
Spain will give an opinion?
The authorities will issue an opinion which is not binding, but which naturally needs to be considered and read with the greatest care. I remember that sometimes news comes out, unfortunately true, saying that in Spain there is project A or project B and Portugal is not heard. We are not like that.
And in the case of Lusorecursos?
Compliance with the environmental impact study was decreed, this does not mean anything from the point of view of its merits, it means that the environmental impact study was delivered with the conditions to be able to have an assessment by the administration and, therefore, will naturally follow your assessment. I repeat. These two projects have licenses and authorizations prior to that of the mines, and if there is a real desire to go to the mines, sometimes these projects also happen, since there are no projects, common sense has prevailed and there is no back in time, and therefore they will be appreciated, being that a previous environmental impact assessment is to allow the positive advance of mines, naturally with the result of the environmental impact assessment.
Does it make sense to explore the mining resource of inclusion in Portugal without the industrial processing unit?
This guarantee is absolutely essential. We have an important industrial project process that is very much based on what is an exploration of the most mineral resources that we have and that are important economy for a new economy, that is, a decarbonized and digitalized economy. And one of them is evidently bold. Just see what the proposals are, the proposals of the agendas for the candidacy of the industry and the large consortia that want to build a refinery in Portugal.
Will one of them have to stay by the way or not?
I don’t know if one of them will have to stay by the wayside. In order to have production refining, the production of batteries from integrated batteries — and who says the production of cathodes, the same recycling of batteries — will have batteries from equipped batteries. There is no possibility of locating in Europe, it is a much less innovative project in the European context, which is not much less refined for the European context, which is not in fact refined for the cathodes and for the cells, in Portugal the greater conditions from the value chain from batteries to batteries are right here. The battery factory has its own symbology, but it is nothing more than an assembly factory. Where the innovative technology exists is not the combination of cells and plastic manufacturing to make cells and the refined one with the original bet and that is our big bet and in the very similar agendas for having seen these applications.
One of the projects that mobilizes more millions, at least on paper, is green hydrogen. But the news we have is that there are many and intentions, but things have taken a long time to get off the ground and come to fruition. What is missing for these projects, namely, to start selling with investments in the field?
Those who are following with the certainty that there is production of green hydrogen time will pass and never of us who thought that it was going to the production said of green project Portugal before the end of projects of no green group 2022. Relative to the 40 million euros of Community funds none mobilized by POSEUR I thought the days of which to know were approved. There was more demand than supply. From the warning that was issued for green hydrogen in the context of the PRR, taken this morning [quinta-feira] the decision to allow it to go beyond the approximately 80 million euros that are in the notice. There is a line of around 186 million euros, the notice that was launched has a part of them – 70 to 80 million –, but the demand that I gave authorization to be able to extend the same possibilities of support.
for how much?
I didn’t set the value. If such important candidacies do not have notice above what to approve, the jury can more than notice, without millions the money never, also not 186 first in this notice. And therefore, they are all moving. Six factories to produce electrolysers that are being reconverted, because they are already existing industrial units. And there are larger projects concentrated in Sines. Where the initial project turned into three. The initial consortium for the innovation and research part was maintained — it obtained 30 million euros directly from Brussels. We know that we can start doing a project ourselves, to produce 1 GW of hydrogen a3 to green0 by the end of 20, because this is essential for a refinery of our own; and we know that the EDP project is jointly with Repsol. In other words, all of this is dealing with the certainty that a part of these units has to have a larger project, an environmental impact study, a work, and therefore these things do not happen from head to toe, but the dynamics are greater than it was at the beginning and there are things that we will update over time.
What have you learned at this point?
What we have learned over time is how amazing it is for the industry, namely metalworking, to be a customer of hydrogen. The Portuguese market that we estimate will be produced by 2030 industrial has all of it, that is, the probability of injecting hydrogen into the network, it even already has a concrete experience, to be done, it will only happen if our key production grow much more, because for the carbonization of the industry green hydrogen is absolutely absolutely.
Isn’t exporting already on the horizon?
It remains from the table and from Sines, from which an EDP came, and Galp maintains this project, and I think it is very important to keep it on top. But it is also true that there seem to be internal customers for all this green being that is produced.
When you arrived at the energy portfolio, relations between the Government and EDP were at least tense, how did that relationship evolve?
These are absolutely normal relationships. I have a habit of having normal relationships and not having tense relationships at work. And, therefore, I have a very normal institutional relationship with EDP, as I have with Galp, as I have with REN, as I have with many other companies.
He has argued that it is very important that these major transitions are made with the energy companies and not against the energy companies.
It’s absolutely essential. Not from EDP it was simple, it is already a company that is much more abundant for the renewable masses when I took over. In the case of Galp, I do not say the same. I well remember the first conversation – which I will not reveal in detail – with Galp’s shareholders and its management, which was said to be the Petroleum gas and what is now called energy. It is absolutely essential — in those who are the independent owner of the capital, these are Portuguese brands, perceived as Portuguese in the world, with great technical capacity and investment capacity — to enlist EDP and Galp for the energy transition that needs it and that is a have.