INTERVIEW. Bypass East of Rouen: “There is a real risk of ZAD”, considers Nicolas Mayer-Rossignol
Through Fabien Massin
Published on
Bypass East. Two words that have resonated for a long time in Rouen (Seine-Maritime)… And probably for some time to come. Two days after the green light granted to the project by the Prime Minister Jean Castex – the State being the contracting authority -, 76 news an interviewee Nicolas Mayer Nightingale, mayor and president of the Metropolis of Rouen, Friday, December 17, 2021, in his office at the town hall.
76actu: How did you learn of the Prime Minister’s decision, and what is your reaction? Do you feel betrayed?
Nicolas Mayer-Rossignol: The director of the minister’s office called me a few hours before, at the beginning of the afternoon. It is especially the French who must feel betrayed. Unfortunately, this is not the first time with this government. The State said that it would not act against the communities, so, yes, there are also the Department and the Region, but the Metropolis is all the same at the heart of the matter. And I remind you that she is not the only one to have voted against its funding, the Department of Eure – where a third of the project is located – had already done so. The owner is the State, he has every right to do what he does. Simply, I think that democratically this is a major mistake.
You offered alternatives to the state, especially in the west, what did they say to you?
Oh, that they did a study that concluded that it all made no sense. They swept them away with the back of their hands. When you ask for an alternative study to be carried out on the same services as those who carried the initial project, it is a little human to consider that they did not want to judge themselves, I do not hold it against them.
So what are you going to do?
I am a responsible elected official, I act within the framework of the law. We are looking at the different options of what we can do, I repeat, within the framework of the law. But there is a choose that is not in my area, that I do not want, moreover, but I have to say it: there is a high probability, a real risk of ZAD.
If a ZAD were to hatch, how would you see it?
You know my point of view on the substance, I have already expressed myself in your columns on this subject. I think that the demands, if there were a ZAD, and if they were expressed within the framework that I have just given, would have largely legitimate. My responsibility as elected is to always favor democratic dialogue in the Republic. Now, I see that the state is not doing what it takes to promote this democratic dialogue. When we say that the project will not be carried out without the agreement of the communities, it seems to me that reneging on one’s word is not the best way to start a dialogue. So we should not be surprised at the consequences afterwards. But I don’t care for them, that’s not my role.
There is the motorway project, but at the same time, the State says it wants to invest in rail …
It is a lie to believe that you can do anything. If we are to believe the government’s communication, we will put this billion in this bypass, but we will also support the LNPN (new line Paris Normandy). But that is not true, that is not what happens! What is currently happening on the LNPN? Nothing ! The left bank station in Rouen, is it progressing? The only one that has chosen which has made progress on the trains is the renewal of the trainsets. Are they less late? No. Are they faster? No. Are the hours better suited? No. Is the interconnection better? No.
There is also all the work in the Paris region, with Eole, which is disrupting things …
But precisely, because prioritization is given to other projects, in this case Eole. Politics are choices, and they are not just positive choices; when you put money somewhere, you have to know that you won’t find it elsewhere. It would have been better if the state had sent all these millions into the railroad, whose rail infrastructure and service are getting worse and worse, even destitute.
Even economically in this whole affair there is a contradiction. We have just merged Haropa (Editor’s note: the ports of Le Havre, Rouen and Paris), whose key word of the strategy is decarbonization, and one of the challenges of which is to increase the modal component towards rail and river freight. Today, partly modal, we are around 80% towards road, 15% towards river, and 5% towards rail. All the best ports in Europe, Hamburg, Antwerp, Rotterdam, all have a much stronger modal part than ours on the river. And in addition, it will be reinforced with the Seine Nord canal, to such an extent that the first port of Paris today is Antwerp, not Le Havre. And we are going to strengthen the road even further! Knowing that in addition, the tendency is that all boats increase in size. In front of them, the trucks are very small transport.
The peculiarity of your position is that you changed your mind about the Rouen bypass, which you supported when you came to head the Haute-Normandie region in 2013-2015. Remember the comment hit your own rocket?
First a quick word on the method, because I have heard a lot of false things here and there. I heard a lot: “Yes, but he changed his mind because he needed the votes of the Greens. I’m just recalling the facts. The first time that I publicly express why I changed my mind is in January 2020, three months before the municipal elections. At that point, I am not allied with the Greens, I am in competition with them, and I can say that the competition is real, fierce, which is to be expected. And the subject has not been hidden. The bypass was even the subject of the campaign, with Lubrizol, at the municipal and metropolitan level, because we carried out a metropolitan campaign, with Charlotte Goujon, Yvon Robert at the time, Nicolas Rouly, Djoudé Merabet etc. The least we can say is that it was more of a risk-taking; it’s not easy to explain why we changed our mind. It’s always easier not to move. And then, when the State asked the communities about the funding of each, we organized a real metropolitan debate, which has about the vote that we know. Everything is clear and transparent.
And on the merits?
I’ve said it before, yes I think I underestimated the state of the world and the climate imperative at the time. I am a scientist, I have lots of scientific friends, in a research laboratory, at the IPCC, etc., with whom I discuss, which feeds my reflection. Today, the situation is clear: in a world that is changing dramatically, we must reorient our investment choices towards low-carbon activity (mobility, housing, food, economy, etc.) and give up things that we did before.
And precisely on the bypass project?
There are the climate issues, the question of the political choice I spoke about: investing in railways rather than in the motorway, and there is the evolution of the bypass project itself. When I am defending the project, in 2013-2015, the question of the toll is already on the table, but it is not settled. Then, the economic valuation of the project amounted to 886 million euros, in investment, with half public investment (half State, half local communities), and the remainder concession… paid by toll. Projections establish the cost at 6 euros for light vehicles and 16 euros for heavy goods vehicles. No one will pay that price for 41 kilometers! And we have experience elements, the A150 and the A28, that no one takes. The A150, I know, the Haute-Normandie Region financed it, I inaugurated it, but we don’t have to make the same mistakes again. This is a key point, 9 out of 10 times when I talk to people they are not aware of this toll thing. And you know how it works, if the traffic is not there, if the concessionaire considers that there is a shortfall, it will be up to the communities to provide what is called a “balancing subsidy”.
In addition, and the State file itself says it, the project will lead to an increase in CO2 emissions, including taking into account the hypotheses of changes in carburetion. In the end, we are faced with three lies: democratic, on the merits of the project, and on the major political choices to be made.
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