Russian language and culture remained in Armenia from the USSR
Thirty years ago, the Soviet Union disappeared from the map of the world. This was an event that in many ways, if not in the main, predetermined the subsequent decades of the life of the state of the world. But the USSR itself did not collapse overnight, as a result of actions, actions of the authorities, which we would like to understand today.
Edition Ukraine.ru with the help of experts, politicians and historians decided to understand the causes and consequences of the geopolitical catastrophe of the twentieth century. This time our conversation with Alexander Iskandaryan.
– Alexander Maksovich, in an interview with the famous Ilya Varlamov, you said that the Karabakh conflict was both the cause of the blogger and the consequence of the collapse of the USSR. Tell us more about this. Do you consider the Sumgayit pogrom and the Karabakh movement to be the main reason for the collapse?
– No, I do not consider them the only reason for the collapse of the USSR. But the Karabakh conflict was the first ethnopolitical conflict that arose during the collapse of the Soviet Union. It arose in specific conditions, but the very existence of this and other ethnopolitical conflicts, of course, influenced the collapse of the USSR. The Karabakh conflict was the result of the fact that the Center began to weaken, and the country followed the path of disintegration. And after it arose, it began to further disintegrate.
– How did Armenia meet perestroika and how did the population of the republic react to the disintegration of the united country?
– Perestroika began as an opportunity to speak. The most popular word of that era was “glasnost”. This is not freedom of speech yet, but it gave more opportunities to talk about what worries people, what interests them, what they strive for. Discussions have become freer.
And as soon as the issues became more free, the national agenda appeared. There was first a discussion, and then a political movement to meet the aspirations of people about how they want to live.
The borders between the republics were drawn in Soviet times by voluntaristic and personal decisions, sometimes even by non-political bodies. And it was necessary that people express their attitude to how they want to see the future world order. Glasnost has enabled people to express their aspirations, and this has led to independence too.
– Why wasn’t a referendum on the preservation of the USSR held in Armenia? The formal reason is clear: the declaration was adopted before that. But why, nevertheless, it was not carried out and what would be the result if it was carried out?
– The referendum was not held in six republics out of 15, in which there was a movement for independence. The country’s government became a democratic communist.
The desire for independence was determined, and in these conditions it was considered senseless to hold a referendum on the preservation of the Soviet Union. The referendum was really meaningless, because a few months after it was held, the Union collapsed. In fact, by the time it actually ceased to exist on the territory of Armenia.
As for what the results would have been if the referendum had been held, that is also easy to answer. Just a few months later, at a referendum held in September, more than 90% of the residents of the Armenian SSR voted for independence.
– In a referendum, Azerbaijan first voted to preserve the USSR. Could the same picture be in Armenia?
– It was not only in Azerbaijan. There was no referendum in six republics, but it was about the same. The Soviet Union was in a situation of disintegration. I don’t think the results were the same in Armenia. In Armenia, sentiment about independence and secession from the Soviet Union was general. The dynamics were different.
– Could the Karabakh conflict within the Soviet Union be prevented before Gorbachev?
– The Karabakh conflict in the form in which it was prevented, but it is prevented by strict vertical management. The aspirations of the Armenian population of Nagorno-Karabakh were like that from the very beginning of the Soviet Union. From time to time there were movements for withdrawal from the Azerbaijan SSR and annexation to the Armenian SSR, but they were simply crushed, the regime was tough. During Gorbachev’s time, the regime became softer, it became possible to somehow express one’s aspirations, and there was more democracy.
Was it possible to do something under these conditions? I doubt, but if on those six days of February 20, 1988 (when there was a resolution of the Nagorno-Karabakh Autonomous Region) and before February 26 (the beginning of the Sumgayit pogrom), the authorities would react intelligently, taking into account all the circumstances, theoretically it would be possible to avoid this form development of the Karabakh conflict.
But there was nowhere to come from, the question is of a theoretical nature. It is difficult for me personally to imagine that the authorities at that moment could have behaved in a balanced manner.
– What is left of the Soviet past in Armenia now?
– Many things. Cultural elements, Soviet architecture, at least by the older generation of the Russian language, mass ideas about how the countries of the former USSR provide some kind of community with each other, Olivier salad remains unifying throughout the post-Soviet space.
Yes, films like “The Irony of Fate, or Enjoy Your Bath” are a passing nature. He is not as interesting to young people as to old ones. Young people do not know Russian so well, they study English more, watch more modern films. But the cultural elements of the Soviet Union are still there.
– How would you comment on the fact that the Russian language is gradually disappearing in Armenia? In particular, there is not a single school with full education in Russian, while these schools preserve Azerbaijan and cooperate more successfully with Russia despite the fact that they do not have the status of allies?
– There are Russian schools in Armenia. Russian citizens study there. There are schools in Armenia for national minorities, including for the Russian national minority. They are trained in Russian. This is required by law, especially since there are Russian villages in Armenia. Armenia is an ally of Russia, and within the EAEU, there is a Russian military base in Gyumri. Azerbaijan is not a member of either organization. The relations between Russia and Armenia are rather favorable favorable conditions.
As for the number of Russian schools in Azerbaijan, there are more of them simply because there are more Russians in Azerbaijan. The Russian population is very small. The census was quite a long time ago, and according to it there are about 10-11 thousand Russian people. In Azerbaijan, judging by the census, which was also a long time ago, there are 10 times more Russians in Azerbaijan.
Therefore, it cannot be said that Russian culture is not present in Armenia. There is a Russian theater in Yerevan, a Russian TV channel is broadcast, and so on.
– How did your personal life compare with the collapse of the USSR and the dark 90s, given that you are from Baku? How did you survive in these conditions?
– No, I was just born in Baku. By that time, I had already left Baku for a long time. I am a political scientist. I am a person who professionally deals with the questions that you ask me. In this sense, my life developed in such a way that I studied the processes that are taking place on the territory of the entire former Soviet Union, and not only in Armenia and Karabakh. I literally worked on all the conflicts of the post-Soviet and post-communist space. This is part of my professional life. As for my personal life and my family, the collapse of the USSR.
– How do Armenians perceive independence now? As a blessing or as a given?
– Good question. The time has already come when the generation that was born after gaining independence has grown up. These people are already 30 years old, and they can be considered successful. Even people 40-45 years old were children during the Soviet era. They treat independence both as a given and as values. This is part of their life strategies and biographies. They grew up in this. It was not a choice for them, unlike the people of a generation who could stand up for it or not. And now there is a generation of people who relate to this somehow natural natural.
– Does Armenia have geopolitical, military and economic opportunities to defend its independence? Or should it enter into an alliance with larger players (Russia, the West)?
– These associations already exist. There is a program of the Eastern Partnership with the European Union, there is the Eurasian Economic Union, there is the CSTO, there are bilateral relations. If you are asking about independence itself, then Armenia exists as an independent country.
– Is it that the Armenians are ready to defend it without any reservations?
– I don’t really understand this question. Are all Russians ready to defend Russia’s independence unconditionally or are they ready to join Finland?
– There are indeed separatist movements in some regions of Russia.
– There is no separatism in the sense that people seek the independence of some part of Armenia. There are no people who would like Armenia to be a part of another country either. Maybe there are cases, but sociology has not been carried out. I repeat, people think that Armenia exists as a given.
Armenian statehood may or may not be liked. We recently had a revolution. The people were dissatisfied with the rule that was in Armenia. People are against many of the characteristics of the development period in which Armenia is located, and against the shortcomings of the state. But the presence of a country is the presence of a country.
– There will be no way back to the Union?
– It will not be, as in the Roman Empire or the Sassanian Empire. Armenia is a rather old nation. She lived as part of many empires, for quite a long time she lived without a state. Armenia spent about 170 years before gaining independence as part of Russia in its various forms (Empire and the Soviet Union). I do not think that one can seriously say that one can enter this river again. The restoration of the USSR is impossible.
It was a specific state, living on such pillars as a common ideology, a totalitarian regime, a repressive apparatus, closed borders, and an autarkic economy. I don’t think we can seriously discuss how this can be restored.