″Lisbon is very beautiful but has an air of Disneyland″
In Portugal as scenographer of the opera “Orphée”, Daniela Thomas talks about “Terra aliena”, her debut in filmmaking, in a restored copy room.
The Brazilian film “Terra externa”, shot in 1995 and which now arrives in a magnificent restored copy, is on display at the Trindade cinema in Porto and at the Ideal in Lisbon. The film tells the meeting of Paco, a young student from São Paulo who, after the death of his mother, leaves Brazil and accepts to take a smuggled object to Lisbon. He leaves with Alex, a young woman with whom he will live a dangerous relationship. Alongside Fernanda Torres, already experienced at the time, and then debutant Fernando Alves Pinto, we see Portuguese actors such as João Lagarto, João Grosso or Canto e Castro, in addition to Maria João, singing in a bar. Directed by Walter Salles and Daniela Thomas. The latter is in Lisbon working on the scenography of the opera “Orphée”, by Philip Glass. An occasion to talk about cinema, Lisbon and the situation in Brazil
“Foreign Land” was his first film.
He had made a medium-length film in New York, where he lived. Cinema was my obsession. But I encountered many difficulties because I wanted to make my own cinema. I didn’t just want to work in cinema, I wanted to be a director. That first film was called “O outro e eu”, from [Jorge Luis] Borges. But I realized that I could not live from this activity. I got into debt, my father had to help me, he almost went bankrupt.
How did the meeting with Walter Salles take place?
I became a scenographer. She was married to a theater director, we were going to be a duo. When I returned to Brazil I met Walter and fell in love with his documentaries. And he fell in love with my work as a set designer and costume designer. We watched each other from a distance, until he invited me to do the art direction of his films. We made some music documentaries with Caetano Veloso, Tom Jobim, João Gilberto.
How did “foreign land” come about then?
One day [Walter Salles] told me that he wanted to tell me a story, that he wanted to film. I was fascinated and when he came back from a trip he brought a script. But it wasn’t as good as the story I had contact with. And I did something crazy: I rewrote about 30 pages and showed him. He told me it was perfect and that we would start from there. Walter has this ability to understand that the work is our master, and not our opinions or convictions.
And from there to realization, how did it happen?
I went to New York to make a film in super8 to introduce the main actor, Fernando, who was perfect for the role. Walter liked that film a lot and ended up saying that together, we would be the state working until then, we would do everything until the end together. My little girl’s dream was fulfilled, by Walter’s hands.
How do two strong artistic personalities film together? Was there any specific division of tasks?
Walter previously had “Big Art”, a very ambitious film that was very difficult to make. He suffered immensely. But here it was a pleasure. In the beginning there was a division of tasks. He looked to my theater experience for a partner to deal with actors. But at a certain point our working relationship became very organic. We never had big arguments. The idea that the film must be perfect is more important than winning an argument.
Where did the idea for a large part of the story take place in Lisbon come from?
I practically exile myself from Brazil. My father was a journalist and was arrested several times. At that time I was a communist, from the student movement. My life was getting more and more complicated and my father saw fit to send me to London in 1978, at the height of the dictatorship. I spent almost ten years outside Brazil. And Walter also lived many years outside Brazil, in other circumstances.
Two exiles were forced to speak of exile.
We mixed the idea of exile with orphanhood, in relation to this father/stepfather who is Portugal for us. He is a father who brought us the enslaved from Africa and then abandoned us. The entire court came to Brazil, then they all abandoned us.
The African question is also in the film.
We came here for the first time to research filming locations and when looking for the travelers’ hotel we came across the universe of Africans. We were fascinated, because English cinema didn’t show them. Not that information, neither in literature nor in cinema. This is where the character of an African emigrant comes from in our film. Upon returning, on the plane, we will read the script to apprehend the employees.
In 1995, Lisbon was on the verge of changing completely, with Expo 98. The film is also a portrait of a Lisbon that no longer exists.
Completely. I interpret Lisbon, from the outside, as another city suffering a speculative attack on real estate. It is a kind of wave that started in the world in the 1980s and that changed the face of the planet. Lisbon paid to suffer this attack. The Expo was the anchor they sent to raise prices. The entire riverside is no longer for Africans, it’s all very chic. Lisbon as a “foreign land” no longer exists, it must be on the periphery, as in other large cities. It must be a pleasure for a Lisboner to see our film and remember that Lisbon so sweet, so naive, so confused but so wonderful.
Now that you are back, what are your impressions of the Lisbon that you are now rediscovering?
Lisbon is very beautiful but has a Disneyland vibe. It’s like the center of Paris: a place that’s made for tourists and less a city of Lisboners.
The film is also a very dark portrayal of Brazil at the time.
We are living a morbid and sick repetition of the fable of [Fernando] Color [de Mello]. I never imagined that 25 years after “Terra externa” we would live a new period of emigration. At that time almost a million people came out. Now more than that has come out. It’s amazing to see how many Brazilians work here and how many Brazilians are heard on the street. My son is 24 years old, he just went to see the movie and was shocked. He felt like the characters, without land. An exile in his own land.
What expectations are there for this year?
There was an attack, done very skillfully, using the internet, in a way that surprised the left in Brazil. It also happened with Trump in the United States, it happened in Hungary, in Turkey, in Poland. It’s an orchestrated, brainwashing thing. Flat earthing is very strong in Brazil. We don’t know what will happen. [Bolsonaro] its popularity is staunchly radical. He has 20% of people who still vote for him without blinking an eye. But there is still no 30% benefit to 3 that has been decided.
Returning to “Foreign Land”: from an aesthetic point of view, what were the main influences?
The film is almost a tribute to Antonioni. All the scenes in Cabo Espichel have a lot to do with the last scenes of “Profession: Reporter”. There is an immense passion for Antonioni there. And there’s one of that with the Nouvelle Vague of Godard’s “The harassed”. There is also the Brazilian Cinema Novo, “Vidas Secas”, Glauber. There is absolute freedom for film lovers, to make films as they love.
There’s also Cassavetes’ shadow hanging over the film, isn’t there?
It’s another absolute passion, a fundamental reference for what I do in life. Nowadays, in series, there are five, six, eight shots of each scene. There’s no way to go wrong. There’s always a place to see the sequel. It’s the death of cinema. In “Foreign Land”, all shots were used. Those were the plans, that’s how the scene was conceived. I am very proud to be talking about cinema. This is an absolutely cinematic movie. It was designed for the movie screen.
What was it like working with so many Portuguese actors?
It was a very delicious thing. It was a time of little activity in cinema, here, so there were the best actors in town. They were all very available. Here is the co-production of Animatógrafo, by Cunha Telles, but our producer was Maria João Mayer. Of those who go out with us, she wasn’t an office producer. And it made possible this meeting with the best of actors in Lisbon.
Two or three words about “Orphée”.
I came to direct the art and scenography of the opera “Orphée”, by Philip Glass. Already reported at the Teatro Municipal in Rio de Janeiro, with the same singer, Carla Caramujo, an excellent Portuguese singer. And it’s in black and white. It is curious to be making an opera in black and white and showing a film in black and white. The black sets and costumes have color, there is only white and gray. Because the opera was created from Jean Cocteau’s film and not from myth. It is a translation of the film for the stage.