Listen to the conversation with Tyler Brûlé, in full:

Why choose Lisbon as the place of a future office?

First, we haven’t chosen anything yet, we’re looking at that. We have no final decision. But we are looking and looking. And when we take the next step, after Los Angeles, which is opening up… But I think it’s a right thing to do. The Iberian Peninsula as a whole is very interesting – we’ve covered Europe in London and Zurich and we’ve been thinking about the blind spots we have. We could better cover Latin America, Africa. And when you think about it, everything seems to lead us to Lisbon. One part is the history of Portugal and the Iberian Peninsula, part is the connection with Africa and South America.

Does this connection feel in Lisbon?

To some extent, more Brazil until…

Lisbon has channeled the world’s attention in recent years – what do you find for that?

There are slightly unfinished things in Lisbon – which many city planners or local politicians might not like to hear… We went through a series of decades where there was a fascination with New York, Middle East, super cities in the Orient, which are often complete, finished. They are new, shiny, polished. We saw the world to change in another direction not just from a tourism point of view.

When we look at things from the point of view of urbanism, function and failure, there is sometimes a fascination for these places that are evolving stories, reinventing themselves and their history. And maybe the feeling that there are places that feel more like a faraway post, the last port. And this city that is right on the edge of the continent has it. That fascination too. Places that aren’t cocky and cocky because they’re in the middle of things. Those more remote places, which are the last stop, that’s what’s fascinating.

Is this what brings so many expatriates to Lisbon?

The history of Lisbon is difficult to put into one sentence. Lisbon has always attracted outsiders. It’s nothing new. I think the history of Lisbon is of a city that has been somewhat forgotten for a long time. Despite everything that happened, it wasn’t on the radar. And there’s this sense of rediscovery. And when you start exploring the city, you realize there’s so much here.

There is also the other side of this, with so many people coming, there is the fear of gentrification. And that can even change this story? In other words, how do you live between the integration of foreigners and the change in the city that could be fatal?

There are multiple groups. Those who provide for a few days do not integrate, and probably come to feed something that is not gentrification, it is mass tourism. And this is also reflected in the quality of the stores, the restaurants and everything. Another element is the people who come, not to integrate or stay, but for opportunities – and then even they can return to Paris, or São Paulo, or wherever they are from. And then there are a lot of people looking for a place in the sun, and they want a different city – not just now covid times, but it happened before.

People becoming part of the city… it’s an interesting question. At the moment I am also in Zurich and there too, not with the strength and numbers, but there are many people coming. And we can choose: either I want to hang out with my community, my compatriots, or I want to become part of the city. Learn the language. Be part of the place. I don’t think Lisbon is unique in this, or different. It’s a contemporary issue for expatriates. People either choose to integrate or live in their bubbles. I wouldn’t want to live in a bubble, but there are people who do.

Perhaps the unchosen Lisboners so used to being global now? It was 500 years ago…

Exactly.

However, there is great pressure because of rising prices, a certain distance from some communities of foreigners who live in neighborhoods that were once popular… Could Lisbon be better able to control this?

It’s something that affects many cities since there are human settlements, and landowners who, of course, want to lease properties or sell them. This is our capitalist society. We are always looking for greener meadows somewhere. But let’s be clear: the Portuguese governments created this situation for themselves. When you offer golden passports and give special tax conditions to those people who provide it – that’s a two-way street. It cannot be just criticism of these people. They were invited to come! It is not unique in Lisbon.

Could it be that the Portuguese are also missing an opportunity, making better use of the fact that these communities are here? This market?

At this moment, it is felt that there is a competition from cities, regions and countries. A huge competition around the world. If I think of all the offices around the world, the amount of invitations, and suggestions and meetings with governments that we have right now at Monocle… It’s amazing. They say: “I want to tell you the story of our city… Let’s take advantage of the digital nomads, let’s follow the gold passport, we want people to come and live here, we also have sun!”

There’s a lot of it. Because, of course, there are a lot of recovery funds, which were released by the EU, there is a lot of competition. It could be correct, incorrect… But it would be a shame if Lisbon missed this opportunity. But there is another thing: the places that do this are already measuring the language… Because when we entered this pandemic we realized the problems of mass tourism, we wondered if life wouldn’t be better without cruises, etc… Well, that was good for six weeks , then it was six months, then it was a year, and now we see a language changing again.

Yes, it looks like things are even crazier than before.

Not to say: I said so!… At the beginning of the pandemic, someone asked me: what will happen. And I said: watch. We are creatures of habit, and our habits have been in place for millennia and we have good and bad. And let’s get back to them. That’s what we’re seeing. And in Lisbon, this is one of the things that is fascinating: it’s a city where you really see the flow of global trade first hand, because it has the airport and the port right in the city, it’s part of the community. So boats and planes fly around town all day… If we took a picture last week, when I arrived and all those people with signs for arriving passengers… it was just like before the pandemic.

That is…

We fell into what we were. Some cities will create rules and regulations to control things. And other places will be glad to have recipes again and go back to the way it was.

One of the things Monocle stands for is individual entrepreneurship, people who do good things in town. Could Lisbon do better? Do we not sell ourselves as we could?

Well I would agree with that. There is a marketing component that is not there, in Lisbon. I have observed this: here we have a small country that produces everything, shoes, ships, cutlery, planes… Portugal is very complete in its offer. Everything made in Asia is made in Portugal. However, are there brands that people know about when they go to a store in Vienna, Los Angeles? No! And this has been the challenge in relation to the perception in relation to Portugal. The manufacturing is excellent, but people think of Portugal as… cheap. So. It’s very interesting, in A Coruña, for example, there is Zara… It became a brand in Galicia, and much more. And you will see and much of what Zara sells is made in Portugal…

What is the missing link? Is it a matter of mindset?

It’s curious, isn’t it? Because it’s been a nation of merchants for 500 years, it’s a country that knows what it is and understands the world’s trade. Diplomacy. Let’s think of António Guterres, for example. I do not know. It’s a mystery. No Business Schools? Are the Portuguese very reserved and modest? There is a silent force – but that doesn’t make brands global. Unless we think about football, but that’s a separate topic.

What idea would you have for the new president of the Chamber, Carlos Moedas?

(Laughter) It’s important not to fall for some symbols. We’ve seen so many cities fall onto scooters, bike paths that don’t make sense from an urban point of view, electric stations everywhere, when we know that the future of electric mobility isn’t there yet. Just because it’s modern and doesn’t involve people. All these sustainability goals have to bring a population to them.

This happens in cities everywhere. For example, in Paris, if there was a trip right now… I don’t know what would happen. You have to look at urban policies in general.

There are more and more civic movements in the city of Lisbon. Is this a global trend?

Well, a lot of places where governments aren’t as they should, or have wrong policies, where they see themselves as communities taking things into their own hands. Clean up the streets, save trees. And not just citizens, companies too. We want to do our part to make the city better.

And on the other hand, city governments to become more important in the world’s political ecosystem?

Mayor Bloomberg tried to do that, and to lead a few. There were times when we thought cities were more important than states. But with everything that happened, there were too many events where politics was taken over by the states, things we didn’t think about: in eastern europe, in the united states, where the central administration has dominated everything for the past four years, it didn’t matter if you were from Chicago or San Francisco you took with the consequences…. I feel that movement is running out of steam.

Catarina oak

A journalist from his grandfather’s typewriter keys, now 49 years old, he is making the project that best represents what he stands for in journalism: stories and people. She has been leading newsrooms for 20 years – Saturday, DN, Diário Económico, Notícias Magazine, Evasões, Volta ao Mundo… – and follows the international media, being part of the board of the World Editors Forum. Nothing gives you more pleasure than telling the stories of your street in Lisbon.