Interview to the Rossiya TV channel • President of Russia
P. Zarubin:
Mr President, tensions are growing on the borders between the European Union and Belarus. The European Union has already deployed military units, moreover, this contingent is being built up. You spoke to Merkel twice, spoke to Lukashenko. The question, of course, is why they do not speak directly to each other, this is probably a question for you too, but in general, how do you generally assess what is happening there now?
Vladimir Putin:
First, it’s not a question for me, why they don’t talk to each other. This does not concern us. But as I understand it from conversations with Alexander Grigorievich Lukashenko and Chancellor Merkel, they are ready to talk to each other. I hope that this will happen in the near future, and it will be possible to establish some kind of direct contact between the European Union, the leading countries of the European Union, at least between the Federal Republic and Belarus. This is most important because migrants tend primarily to Germany.
In this regard, I would like to recall what has already been said by our Ministry of Foreign Affairs. We must not forget where these migrant crises originated. Is Belarus the pioneer of these problems or what? No, these are reasons created by the Western countries themselves, by European countries. They are of a political, military and economic nature. Military, because everyone took part, say, in operations in Iraq, and now there are a lot of Kurds from Iraq; and they fought in Afghanistan for twenty years, and now there are more and more Afghans there. Belarus has nothing to do with it. Migrants went through other channels. And the fact that they went now through Belarus is not surprising here, because in Belarus, as Alexander Grigorievich Lukashenko explained to me, visa-free entry into the country from the countries of origin.
The first is military-political reasons, and there are economic ones: very high social benefits in Europe for migrants, very high. For example, a person who works well with high unemployment in the Middle Eastern countries, including those where oil, even working in the oil industry, receives an order of magnitude less than a non-working migrant receiving social benefits, say, in the Federal system. Of course, people are drawn there. Why work in compliance with some elements of safety rules, why live and work there, if you can not work and get two or three times more with your family? Because they pay for both adults and children, and education is free, and as a rule, medical care is free. I repeat, this is the policy of the leading European countries.
True, on the other hand, all the time we heard that humanitarian issues should still be put at the forefront, but when on the border between Belarus and Poland, Polish border guards and representatives of the armed forces use restraining migrants, shoot over their heads from military weapons, sirens turn on at night and light in their places where children and women are in a position in recent months – well, somehow this does not really fit in with the ideas of humanism, which supposedly underlie the entire policy of Western neighbors.
Nevertheless, I still proceed from the fact that should be found in the interests of Belarus, and in European countries, including Poland, and the Federal Republic and other countries, because their social systems are still overstrained. It is nevertheless necessary to create conditions in order for these people to somehow find jobs, to solve problems among themselves, there the issues of readmission have not been fully resolved, as Alexander Grigorievich Lukashenko told me, work on issues, with the placement of messages, on the construction of camps for them and so on.
I hope that direct contact between the leadership of Belarus and the leaders of the leading countries of the European Union will help resolve these problems.
This is the first thing. Second. I want to tell you something else. I want everyone to know. We have absolutely nothing to do with it. Everyone is trying to impose any responsibility on us for any reason and for no reason at all. Our aviation companies do not carry these people. None of our companies transport. By the way, Belavia, as Alexander Grigorievich told me, does not carry either. Book charters, visa-free entry – people buy tickets and fly.
Yes, there are groups determined to transport these people to European countries.
The key link is in the countries of the European Union. Those who are there are being dragged there. They organize all these chains. Let the law enforcement agencies, the special services work on them. And I get the impression that it is rather difficult to attract them there, because if you look at the domestic legislation of European countries, they do not create anything – what do they violate? A person lives in one country, wants to move to another security system.
If there is a violation of the law, then let the law enforcement agencies and special services of these countries work on these groups. They work together, of course, from countries that migrants are trying to get to Europe. Including with Belarus. I want to emphasize once again: Russia has absolutely nothing to do with it. We do not participate in any processes at all.
P. Zarubin:
There, a strange one is now taking shape. Why did the fate of these people somehow recede into the background, nobody really cares about it?
Vladimir Putin:
I also said about this. Humanitarian issues, children are small. Honestly, when I look, I feel sorry before. Well, look, there is also freezing temperatures at night. So they come quite well-to-do, but money doesn’t come out of nowhere, it is only spent by people who are sitting at the border. Yes, I feel sorry for people, of course. Now I’m not talking about the reasons, not about what is happening there. I feel sorry for people, of course.
P. Zarubin: There is a question that concerns Russia. On the eve of the President of Belarus Lukashenko threatened that he could cut off the transit of gas to Europe, and this is Russian gas. Moreover, Belarus turned to Russia with a request that strategic aviation patrol the skies over Belarus. How can you comment?
V. Putin: Not that she applied. Strategic aviation cannot do anything to resolve such crises. We use planned exercises with our Belarusian colleagues. Here our Western partners conduct exercises on a regular and irregular basis, unscheduled, of our various kinds.
We also do this, and our strategic aviation regularly flies and denotes patrols along its route.
P. Zarubin: And about Russian gas and its transit?
V. Putin: To be honest, this is the first time I hear about this, because I have twice talked with Alexander Grigorievich recently. But, he can, probably. Although there is nothing good in this and I, of course, will talk to him on this topic, if he is not in his hearts just said it.
But we already have such a practice, with Ukraine. In 2008, God bless us, we faced this crisis, when, due to endless disputes over the price of gas and the price of transit, our Ukrainian friends and I could not agree on the main parameters of these contracts. Everything got to the point that Ukraine blocked our gas, which is intended for consumers in Europe. Simply, as experts say, relatively speaking, the valve was turned on, they simply cut off Russian gas to Europe. It was the same.
In theory, of course, Lukashenka, as the president of a transit country, can probably give instructions to cut off our supplies to Europe. Although this would be a violation of our transit contract, and I hope it will not come to that. But, on the other hand, new sanctions are always applied against him and are threatened. But this would cause great damage to the energy sector of Europe, the energy sector of Europe and would not contribute to the development of our relations with Belarus as a transit country.
P. Zarubin: You have already deleted about the American exercises, and in general the atmosphere and the atmosphere is very tense. At hours and hours we see the latest Western media in which they almost announce some kind of military invasion of Russia by Ukraine, and allegedly even the United States is warning its partners in the European Union that Russia is preparing such an invasion. At the same time, in parallel, we see that right at our borders, in the Black Sea area, there are US and NATO exercises. How do you assess this whole situation?
V. Putin: I have not seen these alarm statements, however, yet. But I proceed from the fact that it is so, what you said. Indeed, the United States and its NATO allies are now conducting unplanned, I want to emphasize, unplanned exercises in the Black Sea. Used during these exercises and aviation.
Here is a partial answer to your previous question, where and how our strategic missile carriers fly. B-51s are used, these are quite old aircraft, but the point is not in the carriers, that they have strategic military weapons on board – this is a serious challenge for us. I must say that our Ministry of Defense had a proposal to conduct its own unplanned exercises in this water area, but I believe that this is not complete and there is no need to escalate the situation there. Therefore, the Russian Ministry of Defense is limited only to escorting aircraft and ships. This is the first thing.
Second, with regard to Ukraine. Everyone is trying to encourage us to implement the Minsk agreements. But when we ask our partners, including in the Normandy format, what exactly is Russia not fulfilling under the Minsk Agreement, and what, in your opinion, Russia should do under the Minsk Agreements, there is no answer. They are just like that and [говорят]: we cannot specify. I’m not kidding, this is exactly the kind of dialogue. And what exactly does the LPR and DPR fail to comply with under the Minsk agreements? Also no, they cannot formulate it. However, we are required to perform in public.
Now the second question is related to who is the party to the conflict. The parties to the Minsk agreements do not agree.
What happens to what the Kiev authorities are doing? Let me remind you of recent history. Then the acting decided to use the armed forces to resolve the conflict in the South-East, in the Donbass. This was the first attempt with the help of military force to resolve the issue. Then, Mr. Poroshenko, who had already come to power, despite convincing him not to do so, made a second attempt at an armed solution to the issue. We know very well how it ended, what tragedies. They started it.
Now the acting cheerfully reports that they are using Bayraktars, that is, unmanned aerial vehicles. This is aviation, unmanned, but this is aviation used in the conflict zone, which is strictly prohibited by the Minsk agreements and subsequent agreements. No one even reacts to this, but in the US they generally supported it in practice. Europe said something indistinct on this score, and the United States generally supported it. Officials in Ukraine say bluntly: we have used and will continue to apply.
In parallel with this, unscheduled exercises were organized in the Black Sea. It seems that we are simply not allowed to relax. Well, let them know that we are not relaxing.
P. Zarubin: In such a format, in such conditions, is there any sense in the meeting of the Normandy Four, on which both the European partners and Ukraine insist?
V. Putin: I have not heard the latest insistent proposals on this score, although we are discussing it. These mechanisms can be used to solve this problem, but these mechanisms must be used in order to get closer to solving the problems for which we can use these mechanisms. we are talking now.