″ What we propose to do is a little corner of Portugal in the new National Museum in Rio, it would be very nice ″
I visited the National Museum of Rio de Janeiro in September 2017, a year before the fire. Is the building, which was the palace of the Portuguese royal family and the Brazilian imperial family, still destroyed or is there some kind of reconstruction in progress?
No. The destruction was very great. There is no part of the palace, which has an area of 12,000 m2, that has not been affected by the fire, so it was a very devastating thing for us. Having this context, the palace had three floors and all fell. The result is a large area of debris. And among the rubble was some material that could be recovered. In this context, in what was the interior of the palace, there were very few areas, such as the entrance stairs, preserved because they did not have floors on top. The rest had a very strong effect. What was left was the facade and a little of the stairs.
Will the idea be to rebuild the exterior but at the same time are you going to try a different interior, better suited to the functions of a museum?
It’s more or less along that line. The National Museum was born within a structure, a building, which was a house that belonged to a merchant, before D. João VI arrived in Brazil, who remodeled this house as his dwelling and was rebuilt until it became the castle. da Quinta da Boavista, with D. Pedro I and D. Pedro II. After D. Pedro II there were no major changes. They removed an observatory that D. Pedro II had in the north turret. The idea now is to keep an original façade, restore the roofs as similar as possible to what they were, with modern products, and inside the interior something contemporary. However, we want to recover as historical rooms, because in our circuit we have four main lines that we intend to expose, and one of them is the historical one, which will tell not only the history of Brazil but also everything that happened before the building was built over time.
Among all the Natural History estate, there were also rooms that had furniture from the royal family. Will there still be rooms dedicated to the memory of the imperial family?
In the historic rooms we intend to do some things. For example: we want to recover the throne room, the ambassadors room, we want to recover D. Pedro II’s office, which we didn’t have, and we want to have a space dedicated to the Empress Leopoldina. These areas are in our plan, that we want to do.
Your visit to Portugal to obtain pieces for the Museum was not limited to objects related to Bragança, we are also talking about the possible donation of pieces of a more scientific scope, right?
Perfectly. The National Museum is a Natural History and Anthropology museum and we had pieces from all over the world. The biggest challenge we have is precisely to redo our collections, so we need diverse material such as minerals, fossils, geographic materials, plants, in short, a whole diversity of material and not just from Brazil. The museum is not local, that’s why we need this intense collaboration from abroad and that was the main reason for my trip. I intend to return to Portugal in February 2022, and I will return with the technical team that is in charge of the new news. The idea is to bring three people to a workshop at the Museum of Natural History and Sciences, University of Porto. We’ve already talked to those responsible, and they’ve agreed to receive us so we can spend a week there working together with them and this exchange, which is beneficial for both institutions.
From this visit to Portugal, I know that the Museum of the University of Coimbra was committed to donations. Were there more promises?
There was more, this was just the beginning. We know how difficult it is to receive donations. All museums are very jealous of their pieces and it has to be that way, but it’s also true that museums have many pieces, millions sometimes, and many of them in a drawer. And perhaps these selected pieces are best on display, in another country, telling Portuguese history and culture.
Have they been receptive to museums?
Right now they have a lot of material to work with and we are studying feasibility. Brazil has to deserve these new collections and we will only deserve it if we do our part – and we are doing it. And it was to give this security to Portuguese institutions that I came here, and that I must return in February and give a presentation in Coimbra as well. I had already made a first one in Lisbon, and even made one in Porto, leading the Brazilian and Portuguese community to want to know more about the National Museum.
He has been talking to institutions in countries other than Portugal for donations. Does international scientific solidarity count for a lot here, or, despite everything, does Portugal’s historical connection with Brazil count for a lot?
To tell the truth, we have great solidarity from several countries. For example, 26 German institutions have already issued open letters of commitment to help the National Museum in matters of collection. We have a campaign on the website “recompoe.mn.frj.br”, very easy to find, and there you can see this published letter.
Does the international community feel a moral obligation to help a country like Brazil and a museum like Rio de Janeiro?
In reality, the situation we put is that, happily or unfortunately, the National Museum has turned into a project that can show the world what international solidarity in the scientific and cultural field can produce, so we are a great opportunity. In relation to Portugal, of course, emotional ties make us expect help from Portugal. We were going to have a meeting with the Minister of Culture, which did not take place due to the political situation, but Graça Fonseca has already conveyed solidarity and how effectively the Portuguese institutions to help help the National Museum.
Do you think it is possible with these donations, and with what has survived, for the National Museum to return to being a prominent institution in the Americas?
But sure. It is precisely our opportunity and the great objective that we have, which is to make Brazil, with the National Museum, an institution in which other South American institutions are represented. If this works, from then on we can have an international movement to help various institutions, to prevent another tragedy like the one that happens to us from happening again.
Did the huge meteorite at the entrance withstand the fire well?
Surely. For Bendegó, which is the biggest meteorite in Brazil, with more than five tons, that was just a little extra heat.
Is it currently saved?
It’s in the position where it’s always been, properly protected.
This is a National Museum but is managed by the University of Rio de Janeiro. Is that still the statute?
Perfectly. There are many advantages in a national museum being linked to a university, than in the case of the Federal University of Rio de Janeiro. It is important to realize that we have the characteristic of a museum, which is to have a collection, to keep important pieces for humanity, but we also generate knowledge, do research and train scientists through the postgraduate programs we have. And this is a tremendous advantage for any institution and the National Museum is very proud to be part of UFRJ.
Is the central Brazilian state financing the reconstruction?
Medium. Nowadays, without going overboard, all the reconstruction works are part of the Museu Nacional Vive Project, which has a very interesting governance structure, which unites the public and the private. We have three committees or commissions. The first committee is the executive, which is responsible for reconstruction. There we have the university, the museum, a private cultural institute, UNESCO and a representative of civil society. It is important that we make all museum activities transparent. Then we have the institutional committee, whose function is to advise the executive committee, presenting proposals, solutions and ideas. And within it, which is broader and has the Brazilian Academy of Sciences, the Brazilian Society for the Progress of Science, there is IPHAN, which is similar to the DGPC here, there is the Goethe Institute, there is also the government of Portugal and Camões Institute. And finally, we have a post-opening sustainability working group of the museum, which is headed by BNDES, an institutional development bank, and it is precisely this working group that thinks of the museum after cutting the ribbon and opening all the rooms as is that a structure that is in the university environment is maintained. This clearly shows that we have learned, we are doing the right thing and the museum is on an excellent path.
But are there no funding issues?
Right now money is not an issue. The estimated cost of rebuilding the museum is 380 million reais [59 milhões de euros], and now we have 65% insured. At the moment we are facing a peculiar situation in Brazil, in which there are great limitations in terms of aid to science and culture.
Ideological limitation?
I will not adjective.
Just to clarify the meaning of the limitation: is it not legal, is it political?
Exactly. We are waiting to be received by the Secretary of Culture, because the Ministry of Culture was extinguished, so that we can show the projects and move forward on this milestone date, which is the bicentennial of Brazil’s independence.
What is the goal for September 7, 2022, the bicentennial of Grito do Ipiranga? Where can the Museum be at that time?
Opening its gardens, both the frontal and the Princesses. And it is very good to note that the work on the palace has already started.
As a scientist your specialty is dinosaurs, right?
Medium. They are extinct reptiles, mainly from the Mesozoic era: dinosaurs, crocodylomorphs and pterosaurs, which are a kind of cousins to dinosaurs.
These fossils were found a lot in Brazil?
Yes, in Brazil, but I happen to be working on a pterosaur fossil, found in Portugal, with a colleague from Lourinhã.
Did this type of reptile already exist in both the Americas and Europe?
It existed all over the world at different times, even in Antarctica, where I have a research project on material collected there. They were cosmopolitan animals, of different species over time, and I have a part of research on this, especially in Brazil, but I studied from all continents.
Can you reconcile an investigation with museum management?
I’m currently doing a field activity in Minas Gerais. Of course my responsibilities in the direction of the museum greatly limit the research issue, but I have continued to do so because I have a good working group and several colleagues with whom I collaborate over the years, especially from China, where I have a lot of work. solid.
A last appeal to the Portuguese to help the Museum?
I just wanted to reiterate the idea that we need help from individuals, both Brazilians living in Portugal and Portuguese. We have four positive circuits (universe and life; history; cultural diversity and Brazilian environments) and we always want to parallel what happens in other continents. What we propose to do is a little corner of Portugal in the new National Museum, it would be very nice if we could. And that’s why he needs help not only from Portuguese institutions but also from private collections.
