About the book “Why Russia has lagged behind”
N. Delgado– Hello. Natasha Delgado is with you, and we are at the “Book Kitchen” with Dmitry Travin, scientific director of the Center for Modernization of the European University in St. Petersburg. Hello Dmitry.
D. Travin– Good afternoon.
N. Delgado– Quite recently, the publishing house of the European University published a book entitled “Why is Russia lagging behind?”, A new book by Dmitry Travin. That it can be perceived in two ways: indeed, the question “why is Russia lagging behind?” That is, what is the reason for Russia’s lagging behind; or you can read with a different intonation, with a shrug of the shoulders: “Why has Russia lagged behind? And maybe she did not lag behind, maybe she has a path of development. ” When you imagine your reader, do you think, first of all, this is a person who will read “what is the reason for the lag” or “why is she lagging behind, maybe not”?
D. Travin– I present my reader as educated, not knowing all the details that I will tell him about in this book, but knowing some general numbers. For example, the fact that in terms of gross product per capita our country is very far behind in the economy. These are not our estimates, these are facts. It is impossible to dispute them. We can say that we are a little closer or a little further, but we lagged behind. In the social sphere, we have generally also lagged behind. There are no such clear indicators here, of course, as in the economy, but I think unbiased Russian citizens understand what is, say, in Western European countries or the United States of America.
I ask myself: why are we lagging behind in this area? Can you catch up? How did we develop over the years – did we catch up, did not catch up? Is our country doomed to eternal lag, or is there something so fatal here? Naturally, we are not talking about comparisons in the field of culture. Great Russian literature or wonderful Russian composers – we do not compare them with German composers, Italian artists or French writers. Comparisons are meaningless here. But what can be more or less clearly seen, traced – the economy, society, even the political system – that’s what, in fact, the book is about.
N. Delgado– At the same time, wondering why Russia lagged behind, you write more in the book about Europe than about Russia. How does this happen?
D. Travin– Quite right, you have drawn attention to a very important point. I have been dealing with this problem for many years and have come to an interesting conclusion: many assessments of the causes of backwardness by different authors are erroneous. They think: if we want what is happening in Russia, we need to study Russia. Studying other countries seems to be not so important. In fact, the question of why Russia or some other country lagged behind is posed differently. Once upon a time, all countries developed very slowly, the so-called great divergence of European countries with poorly developing countries of the world took place in the 18th-19th centuries. What happened in Europe that the European countries jumped forward?
It is possible to answer the question about the backwardness of any country, it does not matter, Russia, India or Mexico, only if we understand why other countries suddenly began to develop rapidly after a long time of not very dynamic development. Hence the European background, hence the great attention to how other countries have developed. And only when, as it seems to me, it is possible to understand and tell the reader how, in fact, these means are developing, can one move on to conclusions about Russia and compare it with these countries.
N. Delgado– You used the 18th-19th centuries, but at the same time, in your story about European stories, about some social points, economic mechanisms, you stop in this story in the 16th-17th centuries. Why?
D. Travin– You see, here’s the thing. In general, the historical, historical, economic, social development in any country depends on the historical path. We can start from scratch. In fact, of course, there is addiction, although it is not fatal. A country that developed poorly 300 years ago can develop well today, but it cannot, I emphasize once again, start from scratch. Its development depends on what happened in the past. Therefore, I begin to help how Europe and Russia are developing against the European background since quite a long time ago.
This book is part of my larger research, I have been doing it for 13 years at the European University. For these studies, in fact, the Center for the Study of Modernization was created, where I am the scientific director. And even before that, my friends and co-authors and I had books on European modernization, they were published more than 15 years ago. So, this book is part of my big work. It is preceded by another book, which was published 3 years ago, it is called “A special way” of Russia. From Dostoevsky to Konchalovsky ”. In this book, I tried to analyze how over 200 years (in fact, even with Chaadaev, not with Dostoevsky). This book continues the book on the “special path”.
I have other books in my work now, they even exist in the form of various sketches in the report of the European University, you can get acquainted with them, read them on the website. That is, of course, there will be a continuation, there will be a conversation about the XVIII-XIX centuries, and the XX century.
N. Delgado– What are your main conclusions? Are you wondering why Russia has lagged behind – can you name several reasons in short?
D. Travin– Something, of course, is possible. For example, for the era analyzed in this book, it is very important that Russia occupied a peripheral place in Europe. Actually, geographically we are on the side of Europe, this is understandable – just like Finland, Norway, Ireland, Great Britain, Greece, Bulgaria, Scotland and so on. That is, there is nothing so special about peripherality. I researched the development of different European countries in the Middle Ages, at the beginning of the Modern Age, and tried to show where the economic center was formed, why some European cities began to actively develop, why an outstanding culture arose there – both economic and political, why art progressed there.
And I tried to understand how these impulses were transmitted from one European country to another, what the mechanisms were. After all, they were not at all the same as they are now, in the 21st century. Not that there was no Internet – there were no railways, highways. Having analyzed this issue in detail, I hope I was able to show that this peripheral location of many European countries strangely slowed down the normal start. For example, for the highly developed 16th century in Europe, there is a great contrast between the cities of Northern Italy, which were very developed, populous, rich, and Finland, Scotland and Ireland, and not just Russia.
You have to understand, somewhere at the origins of our development. Why such processes are taking place, how all this is changing – this is also the topic of my research.
N. Delgado– Thanks. I am so that the readers and I will also have the opportunity to ask Dmitry Travin questions at the presentation of this book.
D. Travin– The presentation will take place on November 19 at 19:00 at the European University of St. Petersburg, address: Shpalernaya street, building 1. The conference hall is located on the second floor. Free admission. But – this is very important – since now everything is changing almost every day, and it is not known what decisions of our authorities will be in a week, I have a plan B. From 17:30, that is, an hour and a half before the start of the presentation, I will be at conference room. Come alone, the entrance to the university will be open. You can buy a book, get my autograph, have a short private conversation. That is, even if there are some difficulties with the presentation, I personally will be there from 17:30 until the last visitor.
N. Delgado– Dmitry Travin was with us. We talked about his new book Why Russia Lagged behind? The journalist Tatiana Troyanskaya, the sound engineer Ilya Nesterovsky and myself, the author Natasha Delgado, worked on the program. All the best. Read on.