“China has concentration camps, but Russia does not yet”
The Estonian Parliament (Riigikogu) will return a draft statement of a group of deputies in support of supporting the peoples of Russia in front of the Kremlin’s “policy of Russification”. The document is cumulative. It was accepted by 16 deputies, against – 46, abstained did not vote. Idel.Realii spoke with the main speaker of the discussion – MP from the Conservative People’s Party Ruuben Kaalep. The conversation was conducted in English.
– Are you satisfied with the results of yesterday’s discussion and the vote on the statement in support of the peoples of Russia?
– No, not satisfied, as the statement was not supported. 46 deputies opposed, 15 deputies supported him. This shows that the current government’s Estonian foreign policy is devoid of initiative.
– Could you tell us about your motives? Why did you decide to come up with such an initiative in parliament?
We know exactly what people who suffer from the pressure of Russia and its policies are experiencing.
– I believe that support among the main objectives of Estonian foreign policy should become one of the main principles of Estonian foreign policy. After all, this is what, historically, Estonia was based on. Estonia was part of the Russian Empire for a long time. Estonia was also under Soviet occupation. Therefore, we know firsthand the feelings of these people, we know exactly what people who suffer from the pressure of Russia and its policy of Russification feel. The Kremlin’s goal is to exterminate these people with “cultural” tools. We must support these people with the whole world and direct the searchlight to what is happening in Russia.
– Someone might say that you are doing this to fight Moscow, and not to protect the peoples. How will you prove your sincerity to such people?
We must support these people with the whole world and direct the searchlight to what is happening in Russia
– I think that we cannot stand up to defend the peoples of Russia, the current policy of the Kremlin. This policy is one of the most significant problems we have to deal with. For many decades, when Estonia regained its independence, Russia has been trying to manipulate political things in our country. To do this, she uses the Russian minority in our country as conductors of her influence. If she is pursuing such a line, we must look at what is happening in Russia. We need to know how the Russian authorities treat ethnic minorities in Russia. Our activity is not some kind of opposition to Russia in revenge for its policy in our country. We are guided by the fact that there is a historical connection between us and the peoples of Russia. As I said before, Estonians have shared a common historical fate with the indigenous peoples of Russia, who are suffering from Moscow’s policies. We are at the end of one of the nations that also suffered from such a policy.
– However, your opponent from the Estonian Center Party, Mikhail Stalnikhin, referred to the Hungarian issue in Ukraine. Do you think the position of the Hungarians in Ukraine and the rating of the peoples of Russia is justified?
– I think this is unjustified in the context under discussion. We cannot establish an equal sign between the policy of Russian imperialism, which has existed for centuries, and the policy of Ukraine, a country that has recently become independent. I am aware that there are problems with education in Hungarian in the region, but it seems to me that this is an issue that requires a separate discussion on another day. Any minority in any country in Europe.
– I studied the draft statement and listened to your speech in parliament. They contained a lot of detailed information about what is happening in the republics of Russia. You have selected many names from these regions. At the same time, the majority of the MPs who initiated the document were representatives of the Conservative People’s Party of Estonia. Does this mean that your party is somehow especially watching what is happening in the regions of Russia?
– We, of course, pay special attention to what is happening with the Finno-Ugric peoples of Russia, in connection with them, due to the fact that we have a special historical connection with them. We are connected with them in terms of language, culture – we have a lot of common mythology. We are very similar.
– But you named not only the Finno-Ugric activists and not only the Finno-Ugric regions. You did not confine yourself to a story about the self-immolation of Alber Razin, you also became activists from Tatarstan – Fauzia Bayramova, Batyrkhan Agzamov, you did not ignore cases from Bashkortostan, the North Caucasus and Kalmykia. This suggests that your party is closely following what is happening in Russia.
– We are definitely watching what is happening, this is the same struggle for all these peoples. The Kremlin attacks them in the same way, regardless of who they are – Tatars, Finno-Ugrians, Yakuts, etc. There is an absolutely clear attempt to Russify these peoples. And the only way to stop this is to be together in the face of the onslaught of this pressure. You are right, we follow not only the fate of the Finno-Ugric peoples who are close to us, but also the situation of other peoples who are forced to fight for themselves.
– Your colleagues from the ruling parties did not support your yesterday’s initiative. Do you think community officials understand what is happening in Russia as much as you do?
– I think there are two reasons why the ruling parties decided not to support the initiative (currently the ruling coalition in Estonia is made up of the Center Party of Estonia and the Party of Estonia – approx. “Idel. Realities”). One of the ruling parties, the Estonian Center Party, is highly dependent on Russian-speaking parties. Therefore, on an instinctive level, they are against everything in which there is criticism in relation to Russia. And another ruling party, the liberal, pro-European party, believes that Estonia is not worth the initiative in those issues that are not discussed at the European level. I think at the root of it all is independent vision and courage. They oppose Russia only when the issue is approved at the European level in Brussels. This is precisely the question in which there is a defense of Europe. But we, unfortunately, do not do this. Therefore, the goals of the developed document were, among other things, for Estonia to come forward, raising this issue in the international arena.
– You and your associates from the Conservative People’s Party of Estonia have come up with a document that is unlikely to be warmly received by Russian President Vladimir Putin. At the same time, often conservative parties across Europe act as friends of the Kremlin. Is it your step to change this image of conservatives?
– Definitely, we would like to change this vision. It is probably wrong to associate only the conservative parties with the Kremlin. We see parties from different parts in Germany, in France, which cooperate with Russia. Among the tactical parties of the public democratic and liberal persuasion, which agreed to cooperate with Russia on the issue of oil and gas supplies. This interaction is very beneficial for Russia. They sell weapons to Russia. Therefore, the problem is not only in the conservative parties. I think that there is more confidence in the conservative and nationalist parties, we want to protect our national values and values.
– What do you think, what were the motives of those who opposed you yesterday? For example, representatives of ruling parties like Mikhail Stalnikhin?
– His motives are clear. He represents Russian-speaking voters, and he is Russian-speaking himself. He is from the region of Estonia where a large number of Russians live. I think his criticism, his accusations against me that I allegedly use the language of hostility towards Russia, this is all just a repetition of the Kremlin’s vision behind Moscow.
Despite repeated attempts at the time of publication of this material, Idel.Realii were unable to contact the deputy of the Estonian parliament, Mikhail Stalnikhin.
– Why do you think that your initiative can somehow help the indigenous peoples of Russia?
– I think the presence of such initiatives is a signal for these peoples that they are not forgotten by the free world. Russia closes them more and more. And in these conditions, one of the things we can do is to show that we are brave and we are not afraid of Russian politics, and we will not change our principles. The world is discussing conflicts and human rights violations in China and the Middle East, but the world must also turn its gaze to Russia.
– You say that you are brave enough to fight repression, with the policy being implemented in Russia. But are you not afraid of the consequences of such behavior for your country?
– How other states should behave, how to behave, leading to misbehavior. And there are many problems between our countries. In this situation, it seems to me, if we want to achieve diplomatic success through Russia, we should adhere to our principles, adhering to the principles, in this situation the Russian side will at least be the Russian side. And if we change our principle, they are unlikely to take us seriously. I think this is one of the important things in doing diplomacy with countries like Russia.
– During their speech in parliament, they took out the Chinese policy towards the Uighurs. Do you think that Putin’s policies can take on the same form and scope as Xi Jinping’s in Xinjiang?
– I really think so. It seems to me that the only difference is that China has concentration camps, while Russia does not yet. But the goals of both are the same – cultural genocide. We have to look at these regimes as part of a big picture.
– Your yesterday’s initiative has failed. What are your plans, what do you intend to do next?
“The fact that she failed this time doesn’t mean it won’t work another time. The current power in Estonia is not eternal. Based on the results of the upcoming elections in 2023, we will form a new government. It is very good that it will be our goal of our Estonian foreign policy. We will protect, including the indigenous peoples of Russia, at the international level.
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